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Well.
The two of you have just made your tasks far simpler in future, haven't you? No need to fuss with the parents after this. You can just pop in and snatch babies from their mothers' arms and justify it as 'best for the babies'.
Because a fourteen year old has told you that's what she'd do.
Very ethical of you.
Congratulations.
What, may I ask, did you do to the parents? Did you wipe their minds clean of any remembrance of the child and of their lives for the past several months? Perhaps that's a pattern for future missions: you could make the camp population feel much better by wiping their minds of any recollection of what they've suffered. Because Merlin knows you know better than they what's good for them.
The two of you have just made your tasks far simpler in future, haven't you? No need to fuss with the parents after this. You can just pop in and snatch babies from their mothers' arms and justify it as 'best for the babies'.
Because a fourteen year old has told you that's what she'd do.
Very ethical of you.
Congratulations.
What, may I ask, did you do to the parents? Did you wipe their minds clean of any remembrance of the child and of their lives for the past several months? Perhaps that's a pattern for future missions: you could make the camp population feel much better by wiping their minds of any recollection of what they've suffered. Because Merlin knows you know better than they what's good for them.
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Date: 2011-02-23 04:37 pm (UTC)Kingsley's right. All our alternatives were terrible. This one was the least.
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Date: 2011-02-23 04:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-23 04:56 pm (UTC)She said to you that she was sure her father, were he still alive, would have done the same. Perhaps he would. The problem you faced today, however, was a father who did not see the matter as you and Miss Granger wished him to.
My point here is that you've made a choice now that negates our supposed commitment to take into account the parents' wishes. As of today, you've made it clear that you will disregard any parent who disagrees with your desire to take their child away. Lucky for you, this set of parents had appalling views of the regime, so you can cushion your decision by saying they were mad or dangerous. They weren't a present danger to that child until you got there.
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Date: 2011-02-23 04:40 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-23 05:10 pm (UTC)I'm not under any illusions that your decision was easy, and I know that you very much want in these missions to do something positive, something good for the Muggles and Muggleborns who suffer under the oppression of the Ministry. I'm sure you feel sick about what happened in Maldon this morning.
But we do need to reconsider what we're doing and how we're going about it before you find yourself in another situation at all like today's.
I'm the last to underestimate how ticklish it can be to do no harm. However. Petrifying parents and forcing your will upon them is not in the guidelines.
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Date: 2011-02-23 05:24 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-23 06:20 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-23 06:36 pm (UTC)How very sad.
But I suppose, really, it's a small thing. And yet, such a nice small thing, I've always thought, in the midst of all the sadness.
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Date: 2011-02-23 06:54 pm (UTC)And that will be our punishment, I suppose: that one day we'll have to face her and tell her why.
Bloody hell. Don't you dare make the mistake of thinking this was somehow easy for us to do, or that we made this decision in some sort of cavalier fashion. I am sure Frank and I will agonise over this for a long, long time.
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Date: 2011-02-23 06:58 pm (UTC)No, Arthur. I know you're agonised about it. I owe you the same apology I've made Frank: I let my anger get away from me and spoke to you in ways I shouldn't have. I am sorry.
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Date: 2011-02-23 05:25 pm (UTC)that she was the deciding factor in all of this
merlin poppy.
first off, you dont think shed have anything of value to contribute? second, if we thought that baby would have been safe in that home we would have left her there regardless of what hermione thought. Ive done it before. it ripped my heart out to do it but Ive done it.
if you think that we depended on her, that shes giving us a clean conscience because she said we could, you couldnt be more wrong. you must think arthur and me are right idiots that cant think for ourselves or make informed decisions. oh, wait, were also hamfisted too. after all its not like we have any experience or training.
and you know what? yeah, I feel right shitty about what I had to do today. made me feel sick. I hate that she will never have parents who will love her or care about her or get her christmas cards. Im the one thats there with them every day. Im the one that will have to answer to her about what we did and why, and one day when this shit is all over and done I will answer to her parents about it too.
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Date: 2011-02-23 05:47 pm (UTC)I have not, you will note, said that Miss Granger ought not to have been included or listened to or even agreed with, but as it happened you did not so much allow hers to be a participating voice as used her contribution as a trump card.
It's done, Frank. But the larger issue has only begun to be debated. I wish we had time to set it aside until we could bring cooler, more dispassionate heads to the conversation, but there are other visits waiting to be made to parents with children we wish to remove to Moddey Dhoo.
So we must decide what to do when parents refuse for reasons we do not approve of. Not here, however. That conversation is for the whole of the Order.
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Date: 2011-02-23 06:07 pm (UTC)and if she had her way we'd take all the kids whether the parents wanted or no and that's not what I'm about to do.
so if you dont want to use this conversation to come to any real decisions or work out real issues what was the fucking point? to get into a screaming match? to turn us into punching bags? see if you could get us to feel just a little bit shittier than we already are?
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Date: 2011-02-23 06:40 pm (UTC)I'm very sorry I've offended you. I was angry, and I've made you angry. I'm not sorry I brought that part of it over here where no one else has to see us fussing at one another.
It doesn't help anything to keep at this, so I won't except to apologise for the intemperate parts of what I've said to you. I shouldn't have spoken harshly to you when I do know you do your best and in good faith in the face of ugly situations.